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dslabbekoorn

Windows Server 2012 essentials backups won't work in pool

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I have a rock solid setup with WSE2012 using drivepool.  Only problem is if the client backup folder is in the pool, all backups fail within seconds with the WSS service shuting down and restarting.  Obviously this kills any backup running.  I have read in numerouis forums that storage spaces has a "bug" that will not allow the client backup folder to be in the pool or all backups will fail to start.  The reported error logs, while not very helpful, are exactly what I am seeing..  Except that I am not uising storage spaces, I am running the latest drivepool version.  To test this out, I moved the client backup folder off the pool to a usb drive I just acquired and bam, all backups work first time I click start.  No errors or problems.  I moved the folder back to the pool and instant fail.  I have read her and on the old forum of others running with the folder in the pool and having no problems.  I am not sure if anyone is running Windows Server 2012 Essentials or not, maybe they are all on WHS2011.  But i Thought that Drivepool was compatible with WSE2012.  Has anyone else had this issue?  Any info or ideas would be appreciated, I am backing up 4 computers and the capacity of the pool is much desired.  If I have to get a dedicated 3TB drive to hold my backups and keep it off the pool that will be a drag.  DP works fine for all other uses, media library, photo storage and such, but the backups would be a swwet icing to the cake.  I had the folder in the pool for years with WHS2011.  Help please?  :( 

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I have the exact same "problem". I just pointed my backup into the root of one of the drives. It's not the most elegant solution but for me it's more than I'm used to. Have never had a backup image of the C: drive before only backed up some of it. If you find out of something so I could mirror the backup and be more safe, please advise here. ;)

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I have my client backups folder in my DrivePool drive - it all seems to work ok.

 

(I realise that doesn't solve your problem, but it does mean it's possible!)

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dslabbekoorn, Valdimarsson: This is definitely unusual. Like James has said, I'm also using Server 2012 Essentials and have the client backup database in the pool, with duplication on, and with no issue.

 

What version of DrivePool are you using?

Also, have you tried checking the disks in the pool for errors (chkdsk /r /f), as well as ran a memory test?

Also, there are logs in "C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows Server\Logs\". If you want to zip those up and send them (just the "backup" ones), I can take a look and see if I can figure out whats going on there.

 

Otherwise, enable "CoveFS_TracingEnabled" in the "advanced settings", run a backup (manually, or wait till they happen automatically) and submit the logs to http://stablebit.com/Contact

http://wiki.covecube.com/StableBit_DrivePool_Advanced_Settings

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Just read that it was on WSE2012 my problem is with windows 8. Right now it's not an issue because I only need 1 backup and I have an external USB to backup that backup. Don't want to make drivepool mirror that backup. That's way too many backups of something that's really not that important..

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I'm not really sure what you mean here.

But all but one of my systems is running Windows 8, and one of those is an EFI system, and the boot disk is GPT. 

 

 

As for backups.... There is no such thing as too many backups. :)

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Client and Server logs sent to support as requested.  They want me to activate tracer in drivepool and move the client backup folder back to the pool, run a backup, let it fail, and send logs from all to them again.  I will try to do this tonight, been a little busy.  Backups to the external usb drive have been proceeding without fail for 4 days now.  Hope we can figure this out.  More later.

 

Dave

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Moved client backup folder back to pool, instant fail.  Moved it back to non-pooled usb drive, success.  Tracer logs and windows client & server logs sent to support.  This is weird and seems to be related to the known bug in WSE2012 that it can not backup to a storage space pool and now seems to be exhibiting that problem with drivepool pools and drivebender pools as well.  MS is "aware of the problem and is working on it",  since November, according to post all over Technet forums.  Bad QA on a $500 commercial OS that touted storage space as a premium feature.  OK, off soapbox now, hope support can track this down.  I'm stumped.

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It gets worse. Microsoft's official stance is that "Storage Spaces is only meant for storage. Not for databases of any kind". Which is half the point of using a RAID type array.

And it wasn't as much as bad QA ... as they "stole" the code from the WHS team, and then pushed it out to meet deadlines....

 

As for support, it's been forwarded to Alex, but he's been real busy on some real deep changes on DrivePool. Ones that may help with the issue (if not fix it.  )

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The end user gets it again, in the end.   :P

 

My "fix" of using the non-pool drive is working fine.

I await word from those who know more than me, good luck with the bug hunting. 

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Just to bring up our previous comments on storage spaces and MS's half baked release of it, you might like to check out this (painfully) humorous exchange on Technet's WSE2012 forum.  Poor guy seems to have lost 11TB & his server on belief of MS advertising claims.  The we buried the approved hardware list part was especially wince inducing.  Seems the official approved hardware to work with it is 1) large and 2) expensive.  So much for the SOHO market. 

 

Link: http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/windowsserver/en-US/12d63e5b-84a4-4efe-8951-2274d1a3b6c9/storage-spacesthe-perfect-stormhardware-failure-on-servermove-the-7-disks-to-a-new

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There is a new update for DrivePool 2.x out today. 

There are a lot of changes, and it may fix a lot of these backup issues. I'm not sure, though.  If you want to head to http://stablebit.com/DrivePool/Download and update the system and see if it fixes the issue.

If not, let us know.

 

 

As for Storage Spaces.... I can dig up a few more horror stories if you really want. But the lesson is that it's super new, and not well tested out yet. I'd recommend staying away from it till it's been well tested. And even then...

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Updated to the most recent version and hope to try the client backup folder in the pool thing again to see if there is any change.  Just wish the move folder did not take so long.  Backups in it are around 675 GB.  Takes the dashboard routine a while (up to 12 hours) to move it all.  

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OK, client backup folder is now back in the pool and a backup started.  Lo and behold, it has reached 7% and climbing as I type.  Never even got started before.  Seems like, just maybe, perhaps, fingers crossed, this problem may be fixed with the latest beta v312. :)   I realize I'm probably jinxing myself, but I think we have a winner here. :D  I'll know for sure in about an hour or so.  Backup is now at 12%, yea! 

 

:o I knew I'd jinx it, backup failed at about 15%, with "Backup did not complete because a problem interrupted the connection to the server"  I'll pull the server and client logs and see if I can find an error to explain this.  I'll let it go overnight to see if the automatic backup works at midnight.  It was a manual backup that failed.

 

Dave

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That's great news (so far)! Hopefully that holds true for the other 78% as well.

 

Also, when you get a chance (when the backup completes), please update to build 320, as it fixes a lag issue that were accidentally introduced.

 

 

But specifically, the changes in the 3xx build is the file locking and caching interaction. It should work better, faster and more efficiently. Which are things you should always strive for! :)

 

Good luck!

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Well after 18 hours the folder is back on its own drive and working as it should again.  I thought the size had ballooned from 575 gb to 1.25 tb but that was operator error and late night math.  It's still the same size, just confused used and free space, windows = used, drivepool = free in their display..  I still can't figure out why it fails but its getting further now than before.  Come on MS, WHS2011 worked in the pool for years (until an update busted it)  why can't WSE2012?  Well, as Microsoft "famously" said "large hard drives are cheap".  (unless the factory floods :P )

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Well, it got farther, at least.

 

As much as I hate to say it, I still think it may be a good idea to "reset" the backups, and start from scratch (worst case, make an "old" folder in the Client Backup Database folder, move the existing files into that, reboot the server, and try running backups).

 

That, or... I think I've already asked for these:

http://wiki.covecube.com/StableBit_DrivePool_2.x_Log_Collection

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I'm having the exact same problem.  Running WS2012e and I've had all my server folders in a drivepool for a while. Recently, however, one of the pool hard drives died (I replaced it without incident and since everything was duplicated -- in theory without loss).  Since around the same time, client backups aren't working.

 

I moved client backups to one of the pool drive root folders and they worked again, and I was able to backup successfully.  So I moved them back to the pool, and I can't back up client computers again.  I'm running v2.0.0.320.

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I was able to narrow the problem down to a new external drive.  Here's what happened in order:

1) Old external drive died.

2) Booted into system without drive connected.  Removed from drivepool.

3) Added new external HDD. Let Drivepool balance (entire pool duplicated).

4) Upgraded to v320

 

And that's when client backup stopped working.

 

I removed the new external drive today and was able to successfully create manual backups on two separate machines, both pointing at the pool.  The new external HDD seems to be okay, it's passing chkdsk scans (don't have a more complicated way to scan).

 

I'll be happy to share any error logs or anything else if you guys want to tell me where to get them.

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Are you using the "/r" switch when running chkdsk? (you said you're on WS2012? have you tried "chkdsk x: /r /scan"?)

Also, have you tried installing StableBit Scanner? It grabs smart data, and does a file/surface scan.

 

And have you scanned any of the other drives?

And if so, have you tried resetting the client backup database?

Create a folder in that directory, move the backups to that folder, and restart the service. This keeps your old backups in case they are fine, and lets you create a new backup database, in case the old one is actually corrupt (it is possible).  If that works fine, then that's the issue.

If it still has the issue, then it may be some interaction with DrivePool. And if that is the case, then do this:

http://wiki.covecube.com/StableBit_DrivePool_2.x_Log_Collection

 

 

Regards

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I'm pretty sure the backups aren't corrupted.  They worked when they were on the root folders of one of the pool drives (not in the pool), and they work now that the offending external drive has been removed.

 

The new drive is a 3TB external drive. I forgot that 3TB drives are tricky so I would have mentioned that earlier. Is it possible that had anything to do with it?

 

I also don't know how much troubleshooting I'll be able to do as I've got to take the drive back while I'm still within the return window.

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Randomrage: I just want to cover all the bases.

As for the drive, I run Server 2012 Essentials and *all* of my pooled drives are 3TBs (all seagate), so that's definitely not the issue.  I'd be more inclined to blame the USB hardware here (either the controller, or the enclosure itself,). Especially if it's USB3. Some of the chipsets are still very flaky as of yet (as USB3 is very new still).

 

But if you remove the external, and *still* have issues with the backups, then please do that log collection (linked above), as that is a very detailed log of what is happening.

However, if the issue goes away when that external HDD does, well, you know what the issue was.

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After installing the UEFI hotfix for WHS 2011, I'm seeing this same problem (prior to that, I couldn't backup my new laptop as it's EFI). Moving my Client Computer Backups folder to a USB drive allows the backups to complete successfully, as is the case for the others in this thread.

 

I'm running DrivePool 1.3.7563 and Scanner 2.4.2929. None of my drives are showing any problems.

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Anything new on this topic?  Last I heard Microsoft knew of the problem and was investigating whether or not they wanted to try and fix it,  I don't think it is something Alex can fix completly on his own as it seem to effect all databases that are attemped to be used/stored on the pool.  In other words it's a Windows issue, not working as advertised, imagine that.  I love WSE 2012 as it is the most stable and best working "home" server to date.  Now if they could fix the client back-up folder in the pool issue, it would be great.  My separate back-up drive is still ok but I don't like getting close to capacity on any drive, I have tons of room in the pool that won't work and "only" 500 gb left on the backup drive. 

 

Dave

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