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Odd writing issue in WHS2011 with Drivepool


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I've been wrestling with a problem that really has me baffled. I'm running W8.1 Pro as a host Hyper-V. On the host there's 10 4t drives with Drivepool and Scanner (currently disabled). There's one guest OS which is WHS2011 running 4 2T drives on native motherboard ports. They are offline in the host, and then allocated to WHS in the guest configuration, and become a part of a second Drivepool running on WHS. Like on the host, scanner is disabled.

 

I'm using Drivepool Beta *.432 presently.

 

The host is a quad core i7 with hyper threading disabled, and two cores allocated to the WHS guest. It runs around 3Ghz clock and very low CPU utilization on both host and guest. There's plenty of memory.

 

Everything 'works', no errors no blowups, but during backups for other computers in the house, WHS takes prizes for slowness. It's probably 8x slower than my ancient WHSv1 system. The 4 drive pool is the target for Client backups.

 

I've been studying just what is happening and noticed there are only occasional bursts of data being sent from the machine being backed up to WHS. They are a couple of minutes in length, and typically run in the area of 900Mbits over the net (seen at WHS). But they stop for sometimes as much as ten minutes before another burst. Since these machines are being backed up for the first time (on WHS2011) all blocks should be 'unbacked' and subject to being sent.

 

The standard data blocks written to the drivepool are 4GB in size (seen in the directory), but there are occasional Global data files that could be 17GB or more. But during the time of no data from the backed up machine, hovering over the Disk Performance indicator, the drive which is showing active solid, is also showing both read and write activity of the same speed, and it is very very slow. Like around 15-20MBytes/second. Imagine how long it takes to copy a 4-20GB file at 20MB/second! As soon as that process is done, the data flow from the backed up computer immediately starts up again.

 

Sometimes the file indicated for the drive enduring the slow transfer is *.new, *.tmp or *.dat. It appears to be copying these files to the same physical drive. It's as if Drivepool is converting what should be a file move or rename to a copy then delete. I can't see any reason for all these copies going on. When there is no drive running solid, and data is streaming in from the backed-up machine the drive activity data is upwards of 100MB/sec, so I don't think it's the drives themselves, though older ones would certainly be much slower than the latest generation.

 

Is this a WHS issue, or a DrivePool issue? It makes using WHS2011 downright painful. I'm on my third day of backing up just one machine and not even half way done! I don't have problems writing my own data from a remote host to the WHS pool, this strange behavior happens only during backups and only during these copy processes.

 

What to do? Oh, I tried without duplication and without balancing, but nothing made any difference. Whether a balancing is in effect at the moment doesn't seem to bother anything (make it better or worse). I've removed the drives from port adapters and connected all of them directly to the motherboard 6G SATA ports. That improved it slightly, but not significantly.

 

Anyone with thoughts or suggestions?

 

--Bill

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Actually, I believe the issue may be how the Client Backup service works, and the HyperV Pass-through driver.

But to double check, can you move the database to a different disk and see if the issue persists?

 

If it doesn't, could you try duplicating the issue with Tracing enabled?

http://wiki.covecube.com/StableBit_DrivePool_2.x_Log_Collection

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Actually, I believe the issue may be how the Client Backup service works, and the HyperV Pass-through driver.

But to double check, can you move the database to a different disk and see if the issue persists?

 

If it doesn't, could you try duplicating the issue with Tracing enabled?

http://wiki.covecube.com/StableBit_DrivePool_2.x_Log_Collection

 

Thanks Christopher.  I will do that over the weekend, along with another test I want to try.

 

I'd have to ask the question that if WHS only knew about the drive pool as a unit (a single 'drive'), how would it know how to copy to the same physical drive it was reading from?  I don't believe it could, thus my suspicion of another culprit.

 

--Bill

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I don't think it does. Why would WHS need to know that? It reads from one physical drive and write to a virtual CoveFS drive which, for WHS will be different drives.

 

Not much different I guess if one virtual PC downloads a file from another virtual PC within the same machine and both are allocated a bit of the same physical drive. The file would be copied from and to one individual physical drive without *any* OS actually being aware of this, right?

 

I wonder whether you (or I in the other case) understand Christophers idea: if you set up the server such that client backups are made to one individual drive as opposed to a Pool and the backup behaviour remains the same then it can not be a DP issue. To test, I guess the easiest way is to move the client computer backups Server Folder off the Pool to a "real" harddisk and then do a backup of a client.

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I don't think it does. Why would WHS need to know that? It reads from one physical drive and write to a virtual CoveFS drive which, for WHS will be different drives.

You're saying what I'm saying, which is what I'd expect to happen. But when you watch the Disk Performance area under Disks in DrivePool UI, it clearly is doing a specific copy, with both an up and down arrow showing the same throughput, and that's always copying one of the file types I mentioned to the same drive. It will be the only drive whose LED is on 100%. As soon as that stops, all the network activity and normal multi-drive activity resumes. It's very strange.

 

Not much different I guess if one virtual PC downloads a file from another virtual PC within the same machine and both are allocated a bit of the same physical drive. The file would be copied from and to one individual physical drive without *any* OS actually being aware of this, right?

Whatever OS is connecting to the physical drives will manage them, virtual or not (if they are declared as physical drives). But that really isn't an issue because what they're managing is a data stream, just like any other drive.

 

I wonder whether you (or I in the other case) understand Christophers idea: if you set up the server such that client backups are made to one individual drive as opposed to a Pool and the backup behaviour remains the same then it can not be a DP issue. To test, I guess the easiest way is to move the client computer backups Server Folder off the Pool to a "real" harddisk and then do a backup of a client.

Yes, I do understand what Christopher is suggesting. Essentially, for a test, bypass the pool altogether and make the target a single drive. That's coming up.

 

--Bill

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OK, I misunderstood your question then.

 

I just copied a 2.7GB file from the Pool to a disk on which part of the Pool resides. With me DP only shows Read activity, no write activity, as I would expect. Running WHS2011 without any virtualisation of whatever sort.

 

I also copied a file from the Poolpart folder (which is the Pool on that drive but through NTFS, not CoveFS) to the same drive outside the Pool. DP showed no I/O, as expected.

 

So to me it seems that your experience is weird and unexpected indeed and I can not recreate it.

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I'm performing some backups right now to a single 3T drive with no Drivepool in the loop at all. It's very fast, reaching and holding at GigE cable speeds (900Mbits or better). During this, the drive is writing in real time and more than keeping up. There are no long pauses of heavy drive activity and the blocking of network traffic.

 

It looks like the WHS client software on the machine being backed up, writes to the net in typically 40G chunks, 4G at a time. It does it one right after another as *.new files. Those accumulate until there's a little burst of small control files and a commit.dat. Then it renames all the *.new's to *.dat's and waits for the client to send the next batch, which isn't more than a minute or so, depending on the filesystem.

 

So the multi-minute pauses after each *.new file that I was seeing, appears to be caused by drivepool, or perhaps just the version I was using BETA 2*.432.

 

Next test will be the same single drive in a pool of one and the BETA 2*.467 version of DP.

 

--Bill

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Just FYI here:

The Performance section ONLY reads activity that comes through the driver. Meaning that is "done" to the pool from an outside source.

We do not measure/monitor the performance that occurs due to the background service (duplication and balancing). 

 

This is why I suspect that hte Client Backup engine is renaming these files. That is the only way they would show up in the performance section for the Pool. 

 

As for the logic for what happens to the disks, I can only guess based on my experience. Alex can answer that question, but I can't.

(however, from my experience, rename operations remain on the same disk, while copy may not, and moves tend to, depending)

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I think I have a handle on what's going on with this.

 

The reason it looks like a file is being copied is because it is, sorta. Actually one is being appended or inserted into another each time there is an exchange of data packets from the WSS client software. There are other data files transferred, but there are two of particular concern because they grow in size.

 

The two are:

 

GlobalCluster.4096.dat

 

and

 

S<ID #>-<backup client #>.<drive-letter>.VolumeCluster.4096.dat eg

S-1-5-21-2138122482-2019343856-1460700813-1026.F.VolumeCluster.4096.dat

 

This naming follows pretty much throughout the transfers and is unique for each machine and drive letter on that machine. As I look at the filesystem right now (backups are live) GlobalCluster.4096.dat is up to 16,844,800KB (16.8GB) and the other is at 12,277,760KB. At specific points in time after large transfers of data from the client, DP will go to its read/write mode on one drive, and when it's done, one or the other file will have increased in size. Both are increased during one full procedural cycle.

 

Now, during these apparent read/write cycles, DP's throughput is between 9 and 25MB/s. Horribly slow. It seems that is the standard rate seen for any of these operations, balancing, duplication, etc. Which is probably why there have been many comments about the slowness. And what's worse, that during backup exchanges it blocks the progress of the data exchange from the client! So the minutes that we are dawdling around is taking precious time away from the data transfer.

 

But it's only these particular types of operations that are slow. Receiving data directly into the pool can easily exceed 110MB/Sec from a network link.

 

This behavior does not appear during a transfer which bypasses DP and goes straight to a drive. The operations are just so fast, the time spent for the read/write cycle is barely significant. Also, the effect is far less if a pool consists of just one drive. You start really noticing the slowdowns and blocking with two drives or more.

 

I ran the trace mode for about 15 minutes to capture two or three full exchange cycles and will post 'bblue-Service.zip' as instructed in a few minutes. Hopefully it will help to find the bottleneck. A backup of my workstation, for example, is 3.44TB across four filesystems and this alone will take about 1.5 days solid to back up. Of course, subsequent backups are much less, but still...

 

Oh, I upgraded DP to 2-BETA-467 just before this testing. It seems to behave the same as *432 in this regard.

 

--Bill

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A suggestion, if possible. Could the code in Disk Performance be changed so that instead of showing one filename (unknown as to whether it is the read or write file, when you hover over the up arrow, it shows the read filename, and hovering over the down arrow shows the write filename?

 

Could be very useful if practical in the code.

 

--Bill

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Haven't heard anything from StableBit yet, but have continued my testing. And rather that to rely on stats displayed by the Disk Performance display in DrivePool, which as Christopher suggests, only shows what is going through the DrivePool driver, I have taken to monitoring drive read/write speeds in the Windows Performance monitor software, which can display the data as updating text or different graph types.

 

Independently of that, I have checked other possibilities by 1) disabling all balancing plugins (no difference) and 2) enabling one drive as a feeder (non duplicating pool) which is said to be faster overall. It may be under some circumstances, but to my issue is makes no difference.

 

It seems that *any* writing that is controlled internally by DrivePool has a very limited throughput on the disk. If data comes in through the DrivePool filesystem, it's considerably higher in throughput and very close to the native capabilities of the hard drives.

 

For example, typical write speed for functions occurring within DrivePool (a copy to same or different disks, shuffling files between drives as in balancing), seems to be limited to the range of 10MB/s to 45MB/s. Read speeds for the same operations can be up to three times that, but is typically around 60-65 MB/s. Native disk throughput for newer model SATA 6G drives and SATA III controllers is 250MB/s or more.

 

It's the internal data rate that is causing the significant problems with WHS2011, but it's pretty slow for anything and is undoubtedly the cause for long balancing and duplication times. So now the question is if it's by design or bug? And in the case of a dedicated backup server, can it be made optional or variable?

 

--Bill

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A suggestion, if possible. Could the code in Disk Performance be changed so that instead of showing one filename (unknown as to whether it is the read or write file, when you hover over the up arrow, it shows the read filename, and hovering over the down arrow shows the write filename?

 

Could be very useful if practical in the code.

 

--Bill

 

The Disk Performance area shows the top file operations that are operating on the busiest disks. The file at the top is operating on the disk with the most active I/O request (i.e. the disk which is the slowest to respond because of I/O load). Each file can either be read from or written to, so I guess I'm not understanding the request for showing "write files" vs. "read files". A file can either be written to or read from, it's still the same file.

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This is a very interesting thread and I think that if there is a performance issue with StableBit DrivePool we need to narrow it down to one particular scenario. For example, as bblue has suggested in the original post, Hyper-V running WHS2011 with a few pass-through drives.

 

As far as some of the other issues that have been raised, let me comment on those:

  • The performance pane uses our file system driver to measure performance with some limited input from the Windows Performance Counters. Some of the earlier BETAs were combining our data with the Windows performance counters in a larger sense, but that type of presentation became a bit confusing and inconsistent. The StableBit DrivePool UI is meant to show you a quick overview of what's happening on the pool, so currently it uses its own high performance real-time logger that is only active when someone is looking at the performance data and some limited input from the disk performance counters to indicate disk activity.
     
  • The balancing plug-in settings operate in the system service and have really nothing to do with real-time read/write performance. Of course, except for their ability to tell the file system to avoid certain disks (according to fill limits). For example, if you tell the system to use a disk that is connected over USB 2.0 (albeit, an extreme example), then you are slowing the pool down. The point being, there is no additional "load" or resource consumption necessary to impose certain balancing rules in real-time.

    Background balancing does consume resources, but if background balancing is not running, balancing setting alone do not require some extra "processing". This is the nature of the balancing system and it was designed like this for performance.
     
  • As for background balancing, that is optimized to not interfere with existing I/O as much as possible.

    The reasons are as follows:
    • The pool remains full accessible when balancing is running.
    • You can safely shutdown and restart the system while balancing is taking place.
    • You will never receive "Access denied" or any type of other "In use" error message due to balancing.
  • The background balancer uses Background I/O disk scheduling, which allows the OS to gracefully throttle it if something else needs the use of the same disk. As a consequence, it will not operate at maximum throughput. This can be turned off if you wish using advanced settings (http://wiki.covecube.com/StableBit_DrivePool_2.X_Advanced_Settings).
     
  • Ok, I think we're veering off topic a bit here, but I just wanted to make it clear that background balancing and background duplication throughput speeds are never at maximum throughput, by design. You can turn this off.
     
  • As far as read / write performance, this has come up now and again. So far I've never been able to recreate a scenario, in a controlled test, that has shown the pool's performance to be slower.
     
  • From a theoretical point of view, here's how writing works:
    • An I/O request comes in from some application (or the network).
    • This I/O request is associated with some open file (opened previously). It has some data, an offset and a length.
    • We take this request and forward it to NTFS using a thin wrapper module, all done in the kernel. That's pretty much it.
  • So from a purely architectural point of view, there should be no discernible delay.

Now I started this post by saying that if there is a potential performance issue here, that we should concentrate on recreating one specific scenario. I think that if something is going wrong it most likely is not in the read / write path. Those things are just very straightforward. Renames are fairly complicated so they might be worth considering as the culprit. There is really no such thing as a "copy" rename in the kernel, so StableBit DrivePool always renames to the same disk which should be instantaneous.

 

I'm going to try a test to see if I can reproduce the scenario as it's outlined in the first post.

 

IAR: https://stablebit.com/Admin/IssueAnalysisPublic?Id=1154

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The Disk Performance area shows the top file operations that are operating on the busiest disks. The file at the top is operating on the disk with the most active I/O request (i.e. the disk which is the slowest to respond because of I/O load). Each file can either be read from or written to, so I guess I'm not understanding the request for showing "write files" vs. "read files". A file can either be written to or read from, it's still the same file.

That makes sense, but in practice, at least in WHS2011 during backups, it doesn't seem to hold up.

 

If I'm interpreting what happens in WHS in the backup phase correctly, the very time consuming tasks involve pretty large files that are somehow being appended to or inserted into from smaller files. I don't know how they are actually accomplishing this, but it's hard to imagine they are reading and writing to the entire file for that length of time, and ending up with a larger file of the same name.

 

The sequences seem to be:

1. Read system and block information of the backed up computer

2. perform analysis for which blocks will be sent (have been changed on the computer)

3. Send the blocks as a cluster of individual files

4. One at a time, "append" those to <SID>1026.<drive>.VolumeCluster.4096.dat

4a. During this time the DP Disk Performance display shows the drive which hosts the above file being read and written to at the nominal rate of 25MB/s.

5. Then, either the same data or a summary of it are appended to GlobalCluster.4096.dat, which can be a very large file containing a summary of all the blocks backed up of all drives in all machines. Especially this file grows each day, and at the moment mine is about 35GB in size.

5a. During these long append times, DP Disk Performance display shows the drive hosting the Global file as being the sole file being read and written to.

 

I believe that in steps 4a and 5a, besides being extremely slowly, that DP is somehow misrepresenting what is actually occurring, which is a read from one file and a write to another, on the same drive (usually).

 

What is displayed in DP makes sense in most cases but these two.

 

--Bill

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Hi Alex,

 

I've pretty much come to the conclusion that it's not balance or duplication i/o related. I'm not using duplication on this particular pool, and there seems to be very little (if any) background balancing ever occurring. The four drives in this pool are way out of balance from a usage standpoint, and very little seems to be done to change that.

 

A visual guess at the usage numbers:

 

Drive 1 (G) at 15-20%

Drive 2 (H) at 55%

Drive 3 (J) at 50%

Drive 4 (K) at 1% (designated as a feeder)

 

Balancing is set for once per day at 7pm, and balancers in order are:

 

Archive Optimizer

Scanner (it is disabled in services for now)

Volume EQ

Prevent Drive Overfill

 

I believe these are at the default settings or very close.

 

For testing, I had moved the large GlobalCluster.4096.dat to the feeder disk (K) but a couple of days later during normal operation of WHS it now appears on (G). So apparently the balancing is doing something, or WHS re-creates it during maintenance. But if WHS did it, wouldn't a new file be preferentially placed on the feeder (K)?

 

 

Regarding file i/o priority, does

 

DrivePool_BackgroundTasksVeryLowPriority - Sets the CPU priority of background tasks such as re-measuring, background duplication and re-balancing to IDLE (Windows Priority 1). Note that this setting does not affect I/O priority which is set separately.

 

refer to

 

CoveFs_BoostNetworkIoPriorityWrite - Boost the priority of write network I/O.

 

Or something else? (which I can't find)

 

Standard write from network I/O seems to be right at whatever the network speed is, or about 125MB/s in my case when the GiGe interface is maxed.

 

 

Have you found out anything interesting from your tests?

 

--Bill

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Bill,
 
So it sounds like when the Client Backup Service is "moving data around" is when the issues are occuring here.
Are you still using the 2.1.0.432 build of DrivePool? 
If so, would you be willing to upgrade to a more recently internal beta build and see if that helps?
http://dl.covecube.com/DrivePoolWindows/beta/download/
(newest at bottom).
If you are not willing, I completely understand.
 
As for the background IO setting, the one I believe Alex is referring to is "FileBalance_BackgroundIO". Set this to "False".  There is also "FileDuplication_BackgroundIO". This does the same thing for duplication (but is less likely to benefit you.

 

The "DrivePool_BackgroundTasksVeryLowPriority" setting sets the DrivePool service to use a higher CPU priority. This doesn't affect the IO priority, and wouldn't affect this issue.

The "CoveFs_BoostNetworkIoPriorityWrite" boosts the priority for network writes. But the Client Backup Service isn't using a network path, and shouldn't affect this issue either.

 

Regards

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Bill,

 

So it sounds like when the Client Backup Service is "moving data around" is when the issues are occuring here.

Are you still using the 2.1.0.432 build of DrivePool? 

If so, would you be willing to upgrade to a more recently internal beta build and see if that helps?

http://dl.covecube.com/DrivePoolWindows/beta/download/

(newest at bottom).

If you are not willing, I completely understand.

Yes, I updated to .467 some time ago, and will upgrade again (later today) to .481 after WHS gets done with its post-backup gyrations.

 

As for the background IO setting, the one I believe Alex is referring to is "FileBalance_BackgroundIO". Set this to "False".  There is also "FileDuplication_BackgroundIO". This does the same thing for duplication (but is less likely to benefit you.

 

The "DrivePool_BackgroundTasksVeryLowPriority" setting sets the DrivePool service to use a higher CPU priority. This doesn't affect the IO priority, and wouldn't affect this issue.

The "CoveFs_BoostNetworkIoPriorityWrite" boosts the priority for network writes. But the Client Backup Service isn't using a network path, and shouldn't affect this issue either.

 

Regards

Thanks Christopher, I will make the FileBalance_BackgroundIO change when I have the service down for the version upgrade to .481.

 

--Bill

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Bill,

 

Note that build 481 is a significant change. Ironically, because of an issue exposed by HyperV. But for creating files ON the pool, not in the VM. But it may work better.

And you can edit the file at any time. But the changes won't take affect until you restart the system or the service.

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Bill,

 

Note that build 481 is a significant change. Ironically, because of an issue exposed by HyperV. But for creating files ON the pool, not in the VM. But it may work better.

And you can edit the file at any time. But the changes won't take affect until you restart the system or the service.

Right. Ok, running 481 and with FileBalance_BackgroundIO set to False, I'm not seeing any significant change in ON the pool IO. It could be ever so slightly higher, maybe 5-10%, but since I can't really AB the exact same scenarios I can't be sure. For the most part it's still sub 30MB/s on any of those operations.

 

--Bill

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Alex is currently working on reproducing the issue, so we can isolate it and fix it.

 

The reason it's taken a while is that he was fixing a nasty issue with HyperV and how it locks file. Fixed that last week, and has been working on this issue for the rest of it and this week. 

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Alex, I just read your analysis. Are those times shown in minutes? Or what? I'm not sure what they means, since drive throughput at certain times is the issue.

 

I don't think you're quite duplicating the setup here wrt client computers, as your backups seem to be quite smaller, and do not take into account what happens when the global files I referenced start becoming huge and you can actually see the effects of the slow reads and writes specifically on those files. That's when much time is wasted in the total backup time, by those being referenced repeatedly for each cluster of blocks sent from the client to the whs server. That can only be seen after the total data on the whs client filesystem, has backed up up several systems that are fairly good sized. The global.dat file will be in excess of 40g, and the global file for each filesystem of the drive on each machine may be as much as half of that.

 

Even in your test, though, by simply watching the Drivepool read/write activity, when the read and write indicators are both showing active on one filename, the throughput will be very very slow, 4-45MB/s but mostly in the low 20's or lower. In your test case since you aren't accumulating global data in the WHS backup hierarchy, and therefore the amount of time spent doing these read/writes is proportionately much smaller relative to the backup and if you're not watching DP you might not be aware of it.

 

I've attached a directory listing of the client backup folder. I draw your attention to the size of the file GlobalCluster.4096.dat, at over 38GB. This file contains a summary of all backups of all drives on the client machines.

 

And S-1-5-21-2138122482-2019343856-1460700813-1026.F.VolumeCluster.4096.dat at a little over 34GB. That is drive F: on machine 1026 (My DAW).

 

You'll also see a number of multi-GB files of these types. These are what DP has speed problems with. If you watch DP and a network monitor for inbound traffic from the clients, you see that the actual data blocks come in quite rapidly, about interface speed, just below 125MB/s. After that, there is a r/w access first to the specific drive and machine VolumeCluster file, which is many minutes long at the slow speeds I have referenced. When that is done, there's a little housekeeping then r/w access to GlobalCluster.4096.dat, at the snails-pace speeds. This file in particular is hit after each cluster of filesystem updates from the client have been received. They take maybe 3-4 minutes, but this r/w operation can take up to 20 minutes! Each time! Work out the math, it's slower than slow and kills the backup speeds. During those times DP is showing what's going on and the speed at which it's going! Can't miss it.

 

Even without large filesystems on individual machines, the GlobalCluster.4096.dat grows and grows with each daily backup cycle, and thus WHS slows down getting slower each time.

 

If I run a series of backups on a non-DP pool drive, the speed is pretty decent even with the large file access.

 

So the issue has to do with what WHS and DP are doing to achieve such slow speed when r/w'ing to large files.

 

Though I thought I covered all this before, maybe it was too fragmented to understand, so I hope this explanation and the directory list is helpful.

 

To put this in perspective to a single machine backup, my DAW would take just shy of 4 DAYS to backup the first time because of this speed issue.

 

--Bill

Client-Bak-Dir.zip

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