Is This Correct For New Installation?

[SkOrPn]

Hello guys/gals, and HAPPY NEW YEAR... almost!

 

Ok, let me just dive right in here. I have a WHS2011 Home Server that has been working flawlessly for this family of six for several years now. I recently decided to add another 2TB drive to the system but also decided that I want to Pool these drives instead of having three separate drives. Here's the current config below.

 

3ghz Intel Quad-Core

4GB Ram

Mobo w/ 4 Sata II Ports

 

Port 1 = SSD for OS

Port 2 = 1TB (Full) (Samsung F3 7200 RPM)

Port 3 = 1.5TB (Half Full) (WD Green WD15EADS 5400 RPM)

Port 4 = 2TB (RAW)(New Drive) (WD Green WD20EADS 5400 RPM)

 

I want to format the new 2TB GPT + NTFS and move all the ServerFolders off the other two drives and onto the 2TB, and then wipe them clean with Hard Drive Sentinel to re-initialize the surface area. They are both heavily used and I want to make sure they are still 100% healthy. Once I finish that I will have the below situation for a new DrivePool install.

 

Port 1 = SSD for OS (C:)

Port 2 = 1TB (RAW) (D:)

Port 3 = 1.5TB (RAW) (E:)

Port 4 = 2TB (Full w/GPT+NTFS)(New Drive) (F:)

 

Ok, here's what I want to know.

 

1. Will DrivePool do the formatting of the other two RAW drives, or should I initialize them myself on Windows 8.1 and format them NTFS?

2. If DrivePool does the initialization will they become GPT or MBR drives? I read somewhere that WHS2011 does not support GPT. Is this true and does DrivePool make this a non issue? Or do I need to patch my system somehow and/or initialize using MBR?

3. I use Bittorrent Sync on all devices, from all 5 computers in the house to all two of my Android devices. That way anything I do on my computers or Android devices are instantly Synced to my WHS without any further input from me. The Sync folder for Bittorrrent on the Home Server is placed within the ServerFolders, that way I have instant access to files that change on my Android on any computer in the house, and from any media player in the House. However, this Sync folder is a physical location on the 1.5TB drive (E:). Will DrivePool work for a Syncing app such as Bittorrent Sync? Can I preserve this setup and still have automatic Syncing to the Pool?

4. The new 2TB drive is an Advanced Format Drive using 4K (I believe), but the other two drives are older 2009 models and not using Advanced Format (I think). Does this pose a problem?

5. Should I install DrivePool before or after the re-initialization of my older drives? Should I have it installed before I place the drives back into the system?

6. If the WHS Dashboard does not support Partitions larger than 2TB, how is DrivePool getting around this limit or will I see multiple Partitions in the Dashboard? This last question really has me confused because in the end all I want is one ServerFolder with 4.5TB of storage space available to all client accounts on the Network.

 

I am almost ready to turn the Server off and get going on this so any help for this new user would be fantastic. I can't wait to get started using DrivePool. Thanks

 

Regards

Rod

 

[Christopher (Drashna)]

1. If they're "cleaned", as in uninitialized (such as running diskpart's clean command), the DrivePool will partition and format them.  If the disks are just unformatted/RAW, I'm honestly not 100% sure. But it sounds like you're talking about "clean" disks.
2. As for initializing them, it depends on the size. 3TB drives it formats as GPT, but less than 2TBs are formatted as MBR, IIRC. 

   As for the WHS not supporting GPT, that's for client backups. I used SBS2011E for a while, which was near identical to WHS2011, and it used my 3TB drives as GPT with absolutely no issues.

3. I haven't used BitTorrent sync, so I'm not sure.  But it shouldn't have any issues with DrivePool, as far as I'm aware.
4. Nope, DrivePool is file based, not sector based, so there should be absolutely no issues with the formatting of the disks.
5. Either or. See above.

   You can have DrivePool installed without a pool without any issue. 

6. This is a misconception. The backup feature of WHS2011 does not support volumes larger than 2TBs. That means it can't back up 3TB drives or larger. This is a known limitation of the Windows Server Backup feature, that the dashboard uses. As I have said above, I used SBS2011E for a while, and had no issues. Well, I only backed up my system disk, and that worked fine.

   However, you cannot backup the pool directly. You would have to back up the pooled disks.

I think I've answered everything here. If I haven't, or if you need clarification, don't hesitate to ask.

 

Regards

[SkOrPn]

 

1. If they're "cleaned", as in uninitialized (such as running diskpart's clean command), the DrivePool will partition and format them.  If the disks are just unformatted/RAW, I'm honestly not 100% sure. But it sounds like you're talking about "clean" disks.
2. As for initializing them, it depends on the size. 3TB drives it formats as GPT, but less than 2TBs are formatted as MBR, IIRC. 

   As for the WHS not supporting GPT, that's for client backups. I used SBS2011E for a while, which was near identical to WHS2011, and it used my 3TB drives as GPT with absolutely no issues.

3. I haven't used BitTorrent sync, so I'm not sure.  But it shouldn't have any issues with DrivePool, as far as I'm aware.
4. Nope, DrivePool is file based, not sector based, so there should be absolutely no issues with the formatting of the disks.
5. Either or. See above.

   You can have DrivePool installed without a pool without any issue. 

6. This is a misconception. The backup feature of WHS2011 does not support volumes larger than 2TBs. That means it can't back up 3TB drives or larger. This is a known limitation of the Windows Server Backup feature, that the dashboard uses. As I have said above, I used SBS2011E for a while, and had no issues. Well, I only backed up my system disk, and that worked fine.

   However, you cannot backup the pool directly. You would have to back up the pooled disks.

I think I've answered everything here. If I haven't, or if you need clarification, don't hesitate to ask.

 

Regards

 

 

Wow, thank you very much for that informative reply. 

 

Ok, here is what I am now wondering.

 

1. Yes, I am completely wiping (Destructive Wipe) back to like-new status, RAW, Unformatted and Uninitialized.

2. What if I want all drives to be GPT? Can I do this myself? Or is there a reason why DrivePool would use MBR? And if I do Initialize as GPT and format as NTFS, will DP keep it like that or will it do something to them regardless?

3. Yeah, I was thinking all I would have to do is use BTSync and move the Sync folder into the newly created Pool drive, assuming DrivePool assigns a drive letter.

4. Thanks for clarifying that.

5. Ok, I will install it after I put the drives back into the machine. That way DP does not see any changes to the system.

6. Ok, this explains it clearly, so now I understand the 2TB limit is only for backups, but the OS as a whole can use partitions larger without problems. However, this begs me to ask another question. Where does the Pool file reside anyway, if say I wanted to back it up? My OS drive is a measly 60gb SSD, so I hope there isn't any problems with that as I do not want any data to migrate itself onto the OS drive. Does DrivePool's file actually store itself on one of the Pooled drives, or all of them simultaneously?

 

I will go look for further technical reading on DrivePool because I want to understand it as much as I can.

 

Thanks again drashna, very satisfied you were so informative, that REALLY made everything clearer for me. I hope your New Year is a Joyous one bud.

 

Regards

Rod

[Christopher (Drashna)]

You are very welcome. I try to provide as much info as possible without presenting too much.

 

1. Okay, so definitely "clean". DrivePool can add that in that state just fine.
2. Because for the most part, the main reason you'd want to use one of the other is that GPT supports..... really large volumes. Like millions of TB sized volumes., IIRC.  
   But if you want, you can initialize the disk as GPT, create a basic disk, and use a NTFS partition. DrivePool doesn't have any issue with that.
   However, we don't currently support Dynamic disks.
3. Yes, DrivePool definitely assigns a letter. And you can change that letter, if you want. In fact, we recommend doing so, and to A or B, or something much higher up in the alphabet to avoid the disk letter from being bumped (Windows will do that some times when you add a new disk)
4. Not a problem.
5. Sounds good. But DrivePool is fine with moving disks around. Heck, the pool can be moved to a different system without much hassle (security permissions being the main thing)
6. The files are stored in hidden "PoolPart.xxxx" folders. Everything in these folders will mirror how the pool looks. 
   As for the pool itself, it's a virtual drive. It doesn't actually "exist" anywhere. All the IO operations (including listing the contents) are passed onto the disks themselves. (And the kernel tends to cache some of these requests in memory).
   If you want to back up the pool, you'd want to back up these folders. But remember, if they're larger than 2TBs, then Windows Server Backup cannot back them up. 
   Also, information about the duplication status and some Pool related stuff is stored on the drives in the pool. However, most of the other settings (such as balancer configuration, activation information, etc) is stored on the system disk.
   So, basically, the pool really doesn't touch the system disk, unless you've added it to the pool (which isn't an option for WHS2011, actually).

And talking about the OS drive, a small SSD like that is a great idea. In fact, my server runs with a 120GB SSD (I have ... a few things installed that need more space), as well as a drive dedicated to system roles (hyperV, Windows Deployment Servers) and download temp. None of the pooled data ever touches the system disk. And I have those drives backed up daily.

 

And I'm glad that you've appreciated the thorough answers. And again, if you need any further clarification or have any other questions, don't hesitate to ask.

 

And enjoy the New Years, as well!

 

Regards

[SkOrPn]

Thanks again,

 

Someone over at WeGotServed told me you guys are very supportive and helpful when it comes to asking questions, thank you for that. I can't believe I am bothering you this time of year, but a geek will always be a geek no matter what day it is, lol. Anyway, I used to run a VERY large Forum for Microsoft back from 2003 to 2010 and was one of the first to beta test Windows XP 64-Bit Edition for 64-Bit Extended Systems (before it was called 64-bit Edition). I was the same way with my forum users, always as helpful as I could be.

 

Ok, here are a few more questions and clarifications. I have been reading the user manual from start to finish and discovered much of what I need to know already. But it does not hurt to make sure you know as much as possible when dealing with your precious data.

 

1. The command in Diskpart would actually be the "clean all" command as the "clean" command only deletes data allowing for what appears like a empty partition ready for use. However, the Clean All command actually removes everything, i.e "Secure Erase" (a.k.a zeroed out for you geeks). I am using the award winning Hard Drive Sentinel which is MUCH more thorough than the Clean All command by it using a special algorithm that really fixes all kinds of problems with drives. It took 11.5 hours to "Clean All" of my 1.5TB drive and when it was done it reported a 100% Healthy drive ready for another 1000 days of service. Example: In 2012 my WD15EADS (WD Green 1.5tb) developed 2 damaged and 2 bad blocks (not much at all) and its health was reported by S.M.A.R.T as 83% (not good) with 100% Performance (excellent). Not to good a result and definitely worrisome, however after using the Surface Re-initialization Feature of Hard Disk Sentinel, this drive has been flawless ever since. Most consumers would just replace a drive once something like that happened but the drive acts and runs like new still to this day. Anyway, I wonder if DrivePool will work along side HDSentinel Software? Surprised I didn't ask that earlier. I have 5 licenses for that and have been using it for the HDD monitoring function.

 

2. I just wanted to use GPT because of its greater resilience to corruption. I do not believe there will be a performance hit of any kind using GPT, so I see no reason not to use it regardless of disk size. Not sure if the BIOS of this old computer supports GPT, but I will find out.

 

3. Wow, drive A: huh? What a great idea, you guys are smart. I like smart people... lol

 

Haha, Chris this OS has been rock solid and I never expected it to run as fast as it does on old hardware. Even with only an old Core 2 Quad Q6600 at 3ghz, and 4gb of Ram it feels extremely fast even through RDP sessions. I love SSD's. Maybe one of these days I will retire my C300's and put one of them into the Server. They are also 128gb. Currently though it has a 60gb Vertex 2 that was just laying around in one of my computer desk drawers, lol... It has been rock solid in the Server.

 

Anyway, thanks again Chris.

 

Rod 

[SkOrPn]

I do have one more tiny question, one of my drives is the original Samsung F3, one of the worlds most stable and reliable hard drives. Is there a way to instruct DP to use it for the more important folders/files? I recently experienced a catastrophe when I tried to install WHS2011 fresh on this SSD, and I did not remove the F3 nor the 1.5tb, and for what ever reason, even after instructing WHS to use the SSD it just without my permission used the 1.5tb drive (with 17 years of data since the mid 1990's) for the OS (Yes I knew better but was being lazy and the installer clearly showed me it was going to use the SSD, so I trusted it). I was gutted to say the least when I realized the 1.5tb was formatted and the OS installed onto it. Anyway, I recovered much of those files since I had an external backup drive, but lost 17 years of software licenses, resumes, pictures etc. Only what was the most important to me was lost of course. Anyway, I feel my F3 drive is by far my most reliable and I was wondering if I could use it for the most important of files, and say the WD Greens for media only? Maybe balancing data between the two greens, but leaving the F3 for stuff like resumes, pictures, software, my TechNet and MSDN keys etc, etc. Is this possible?   

 

Ok, just to let you know I think I have finished all the data I could find on the site about DrivePool. I want to say thanks again, and I hope you enjoy your New Years Holiday.

 

Regards

Rod

[Christopher (Drashna)]

#2, Any system should support it as a non-system/boot disk. Aka as a data disk. It is only really important on the boot drive, where BIOS needs MBR, and UEFI needs GPT.

 

And yeah, WHS2011 runs very well, And there is probably a reason why some people want to use it as a desktop OS...
But a SSD really does help out.

 

As for the file placement, there is the "Ordered file placement" balancer plugin, but that's not really what you want. It fills one disk at a time.

But for these really important files, you could change the duplication count. There is a command line utility (dpcmd) that can allow you to set the duplication per folder or to a higher than x2 duplication (btw, DrivePool 2.x can do this through the UI natively)

http://wiki.covecube.com/StableBit_DrivePool_Utilities

 

 

But as for the technet/msdn keys, even if you're subscription expires, they will be stored and accessible. As my free acounts for being an MVP expired a year and a half ago... and I just checked a couple of days ago, and they're still there.... I can say that with certainty. For the rest of it, setting the duplication higher would be a good idea. As would using CrashPlan or SkyDrive or some other off-site backup solution. What happens if a surge kills your server (I mean, you should have a UPS, but things happen anyways), or if the location the server is at catches fire? It won't matter what drive it's on.