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Building new server from scratch!


hansolo77

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Hey all!  I've been working on learning how to setup and install WSE 2012 R2 and I think I'm finally there.  However, I'm feeling very limited in my capacities as my case is overflowing with drives.  So I'm going to be building a new server from the ground up and would like some advice and suggestions as to what I should get.  I'm only a part-time worker and don't really make a lot of money.  So the purchasing time line is going to be really long.  So far, I know for certain that I'm going to but the Norco 4224 case.  I've read reviews and it has been recommended time and time again.  The only issue with this case appears to be the fans, and the potential for the backplanes to be DOA.  But at the price, it's a steal compared to other similar cases.  Plus, I'm going to get it through NewEgg, as they're the cheapest place around, and they offer really quick RMA's for exchanges if there's something wrong with.
 
Now I'm at the point of internals.  The first order of business is the motherboard.  Form factor isn't really an issue as the Norco case fully supports a whole range.  Individual features are where I'm struggling.  I know that I want to have room for expansion.  So I'm kinda staying away from those Mini ITX boards, since they, for the most part, all seem to have only 1 expansion slot.  I already have 1 SAS controller, and plan on getting an expander.  So that would be 2 slots.  As for the processor, I'm not sure what I need.  My usage scenario is a simple home file server for client backups and media streaming.  So I suppose I don't need anything major.  The same goes for RAM. 
 
As it is right now, I'm thinking about getting one of these:

SUPERMICRO MBD-X9SCL-F-O LGA 1155 Intel C202 Micro ATX Intel Xeon E3 Server Motherboard
or
SUPERMICRO MBD-A1SAM-2550F-O uATX Server Motherboard FCBGA 1283 DDR3 1600/1333
 
The first board is nice, in that it has plenty of expansion slots, Support for Xeon processors, and is cheap.  However, it only supports ECC memory of max 32gb, SATA 3.0GB/s, and is cheap.  The second board is nice, in that it has just enough expansion slots for my needs (controller and expander), already comes with a processor, supports (but not require) ECC memory of max 64gb, and has 2xSATA 6.0Gb/s, but is a little more expensive.
 
So which board should I get?  Integrated CPU and more RAM, or more slots, less RAM, and mandatory ECC?  Or should I look at something else?  What are your suggestions?

EDIT ->  I just looked at and am now also adding this contender:
SUPERMICRO MBD-A1SAM-2550F-O uATX Server Motherboard FCBGA 1283 DDR3 1600/1333

 

It's got more everything.  More SATA 6.0Gb/s, TONS more RAM, support for faster CPU, and more expensive.  To put it in perspective, this new board would probably take a month to save up for.

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Oh, wow, AGP? :)  That's ... ancient! :P

 

And yes, Norco is definitely still in business. 

As for responding, it's the weekend, so they may not.  But IIRC, their support wasn't great and it may take a while for them to get back to you (a week or two). 

 

But to make sure: 

http://www.norcotek.com/contact-us/

 

 

As for the backplanes, they're using SAS to SATA breakout, which is basically just fanning out the wires.

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Well, prior to going to the dentist and my HP card crapping out on me, I had emailed them. I think it was like the 2nd week of January. I never heard from them. Then I remember sending them another email 10 days later, and even sending them a PM on Facebook. Still nothing. That's why I asked.

 

Well, thanks to your PM Chris, I think the HP card I ordered from Amazon is a no-go. I just sent them an email asking to cancel it. I ordered it on Friday, and it still shows it haven't even finished "preparing shipment". I get that it's the weekened, but UPS and stuff still run on Saturdays. Hopefully it's not ready to ship and they can cancel my order so I can go back and order a proper card. Most of my drives are now all 4TB, so your warning about SAS1 being limited to 2TB is kinda scaring me. :)

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Ah, yeah, that's definitely a long while ....

 

Trying skype may be a good idea, too. 

 

 

That said, yeah, SAS1 vs SAS2 is a huge difference.

I've seen people report that it works fine for up to 10 drives. But in my experience, that wasn't the case.  

And I'd rather scare you now, so you don't have additional issues. 

 

That said, Amazon and most of the sellers are pretty good about cancelling orders, so you should be fine. 

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Never updated.. Amazon was successful in canceling the order and the charge never fully went though on my bank.  Took a few days after the fact, but it did eventually clear. 

 

After learning of the SAS1 vs SAS2 bit, Chris was (thankfully!) willing to offer up his old no longer used Intel SAS expander.  It's on it's way now, should have it by Friday.  I'll post up an update on how the installation goes.  I don't anticipate any issues, as it has compatibility to work via PCIe slot OR molex power.  Fingers Crossed!

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Hi that's good to know hope it works I just ordered the new ryzen hopefully here today/tomorrow so I'll be tinkering myself.

 

And ryzen 1700x

Asus crosshair x370

250gb Samsung evo M.2

16gb corsair vengeance

 

We need to start a thread for selling our spare parts on here I have loads of bits that may be useful to other people what do you think Chris

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Well, the big thing with SAS1 vs SAS2 is the speed (doubled), and drive limits (SAS1 has issues with drives over 2TB, some may work, but some may not, and may be limited on the number thta work).  

Generally, if you can, you want to avoid SAS1. 

 

As for the marketplace ... that's a tricky thing, as there are potential legal ramifications.   I'll talk to Alex about this, but there are a number of places already to do this. (reddit has a number of subs for this, and the Home Server Show forums has a somewhat active marketplace).

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EPIC GRR!!!  :(

 

The more I mess around with this, the more I break it.  So I received the replacement expander card (much thanks!).  I'm sure it works fine.  I have "most" of the drives working.  2 entire backplanes, however, are completely unresponsive.  I can sometimes get one of the drives in rail 3 to detect, but then after a reboot to try and fix another one, it too drops.  Backplane #3 is just a total loss.  I've ordered a replacement and actually got a reply from one of their sales reps asking for a photo of the backplane so they can send me the correct replacement.  Upon doing so, I found a bunch of what appeared to be poor soldering and bad rosin removal.  Hopefully it's just superficial, but it would definitely help to explain why I've always had trouble with this particular backplane.  Photos here!   Now in my (vain) attempt to get more drives working, it looks like Backplane #6 has gone kaput too.  When I initially got this replacement expander and had everything hooked up, I'm pretty sure it detected the 2 drives on that rail.  Now I can't see anything.  I've tried swapping the ends of the SAS cable, and now (since I've pulled the card) I've also swapped the cable with the one from #3.  No dice.  To make matters worse, it looks like now drives in bay's 3 and 4 of Rail #1 (the top) aren't being detected either!  These aren't even connecting to the expander, they're all connected directly to the controller!  I have no idea what's going on.  Chris thinks maybe my stupid trick of plugging the card in when the system was on may have traced back to the controller too.  If that's the case, I'm SOL.  I can't afford to buy replacement stuff.  This whole venture seems to be a total bust. 

 

I hate my life, I hit this stupid machine.  I hate that there are genius's out there with the knowledge to just look at my problem and fix it, but I can't figure it out myself.  I mean, if money was no issue, I'd replace all 6 backplanes, buy a brand new (instead of used) controller and expander card.  Hell, I'd start completely over.  But that's not the case.  I'm limited to band aid fixes and fingers crossed and hopes and prayers.  I just can't believe that this one little thing (computer locking up causing a hard cold restart) is causing all these problems.  I need to just give up and find a new hobby.

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Hi bud

 

Don't let it beat you at this point it's all about damage limitation I would strip the server completely remove the backplanes from the server everything then on a table build the server outside the case and try connect one of the back planes with a reverse breakout cable to the on board sata ports do this to check all the back planes if no joy your going to have to replace them if you get a good one then try that via the controller then via the expander then via every port you can test its time consuming but it's the going to be your only way of testing what you have and it won't cost you anything to do.

 

 

Also if you think you have some bad soldier joints just reheat them it normally does the trick again you can't break something if it's already broken so it's worth trying

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Good call. You're right, it will take a long time, but it would definitely eliminate all possible causes. It was late last night. I was just getting overly frustrated. I thought it would be a quick simple fix to just plug in the new expander and everything would be back to working like it was before. Oh well, guess there's still work to do.

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Here's my latest development:

 

Just for kicks, I decided to try Backplane #6 one more time using a KNOWN working SAS cable (from #1).  Still wouldn't detect anything.  I then tried using a reverse breakout cable connected to #6 and then directly to my motherboard.  Nothing detected.  I thought maybe I had the wrong cable, so just as a test, I connected it to Backplane #1 (that I know works).  It detected those drives fine.  So I knew I had the right cable.  I reconnected the breakout to #6, but this time swapped out a drive from #1 to see if that WORKING drive would be detected.  It was not detected.  I then put the drive that WAS on #6 into the available slot on #1 to see if the SAS controller would detect the drive in there.  It did.  So to me, this process of elimination proves that Backplane #6 has also failed now, and not the drives.  Did I miss anything?

 

To recap:

  • [NON-DETECT] Connect Backplane #1 SAS cable to #6
  • [NON-DETECT] Connect Reverse Breakout to #6 and Mobo
  • [DETECT] Connect Reverse Breakout to #1 and Mobo
  • [NON-DETECT] Reverse Breakout to #6, Swap working drive in #1 to #6
  • [DETECT] Swap non-detected drive from #6 to #1

Is there anything else I can do or try to make sure it's definitely the backplane and not something else like a bad cable?

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Hi have you also tried the power connector sometimes the prongs of a molex can get pushed out so try another power connector as well

 

Have you had the backplane off to inspect it may well be a lose connection or more likely a resistor either way you could be looking at a $5 fix

 

I had a apc ups with a faulty relay would not charge batteries cost to fix via vendor £350 plus return postage intotal around £450 I found a relay on eBay for 99p has worked flawlessly since

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I did actually try something like that. I haven't checked #6 yet, but since I have #3 pulled I tested it much more thoroughly. I tested the backplane by attaching drives to it without having it installed the case. Used WORKING moxex power plugs (from #1) and tried it in both the regular and the backup connectors. It looks like it powers on ok. The lights and everything come on indicating a good connection. It's just the data side that's not working. I tested both SAS and reverse breakout on it. No combination of cabling would make the drives become detected in either the BIOS or in the LSI controller's setup utility. On a whim, I also tested each drive that is typically connected to that backplane directly with standard SATA, and each one works like it should. I checked all of the capacitors, resisiters, etc. Everything looks good aside from that weird looking white stuff around the LED and power solder connections. The SAS connector looks perfect.

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What a bunch of BS... So I got my "replacement" backplane in the mail today.  The same white residue exists on all of the soldered connections for the MOLEX power and LEDs.  It's also missing all of the pins to the 1st MOLEX power plug, which means no backup power supply capabilities.  And to top it all off, the SAS connector is broken, preventing me from properly inserting and locking in the connector.  I'm furious right now.  I'm attempting to RMA it, but I imagine it will go unanswered as well.  They have a "Store Policy" web page that indicates RMA is capable, but it requires emailing them and asking for it. 

 

http://www.ipcdirect.net/store-policies/

 

I've had NO return emails from them since I first bought their case.  I had to ORDER replacement screws just so I could mount my hard drives, and only then did they bother to email me asking what size I needed.  They wouldn't just send me out some for free because it didn't come with any.  I now have to send this POS (technical term ^_^) back to them and wait even longer to get a replacement.  They'll probably turn around and try to charge me again to send it to them and to send it back, plus a "restocking fee".  If anybody out there is reading this and thinking about getting a NORCO case because they're cheap, my recommendation is DON'T.  Please don't give this company any more money.  They're worse than worthless. 

 

Here's my email to them, complete with a link to photos for proof..

 

--------------------------------------------------------

 

I just received my order (#783).  A replacement backplane for a faulty backplane in my Norco RPC-4224.  I was excited to see it had arrived, given that the USPS website hadn't shown any movement for days.  When I opened it, I looked over the product.  I'm extremely unsatisfied in the quality of it.  First of all, it's completely missing the pins for the 1st MOLEX power plug.  How am I supposed to connect a backup power supply to this without any pins?  Secondly, the SAS connector is broken on the inside.  I can't plug my cable into the port.  I gave it the benefit of a doubt though, and tried connecting a spare reverse breakout cable to it.  After some work, I managed to get it plugged in, but only 2 out of 4 drives connected could be detected.  I'm very unhappy with this.  I would request a refund, but I need the product.  Can you please provide me with an RMA number and a replacement product ASAP?! 

 

Pictures are attached and linked here:

http://imageupper.com/g/?S020001008Q1488503057225783

 

I feel I should mention that this company's value to me is horrible.  You sell really poor quality products.  You offer absolutely no support.  I submit emails requesting information prior to buying and it goes ignored.  I shouldn't even have to pay to get replacement parts of a product you should be standing behind.  My ORIGINAL backplane was faulty from day one, but I couldn't get it replaced for free, that's was my first indication this is a bad company.  Now my replacement is just as bad, if not worse, and you're probably going to charge me to send it back to you, and charge me again to send another replacement.  That's just not right.  I refuse to pay returning shipping and restock charges.  I demand that this get replaced with properly tested and working QUALITY merchandise, or I will take this to a higher authority.  This is ridiculous.

 

A very unhappy customer...

-Aaron

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Welcome to the world on Norco. I have (4) brand new 2212 chassis that had more than one faulty backplanes in each of them. I received a initial response from them and did receive one replacement backplane with the same issues you described, no pins on the molex connected and a broken SAS port.

 

After that, no further communication or replies from them. I decided my only action is to scrap $1,000 worth of chassis and chalk it up to it costs money to get educated. To be blunt, Norco is complete garbage. And their support is pathetic at best.

 

I switched everything over to Supermicro 24 bay chassis and then onto HGST 60 bay chassis. I will never buy Norco again.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Ouch, that ... really sucks.  And yeah, definitely anger inducing.  

 

As I've said, I'd had odd issues with my Norco that completely disappeared when I got my Supermicro case.  Unfortunately, finding a SAS2 backplane (or even TQ - aka pure SATA) is increasingly difficult (or expensive). 

 

 

The best advice I can give you (aside from spending money on a Supermicro, iStar, etc) is ... well, try replacing them until you get good ones....

 

 

Don't forget, "EECB" is always a viable response to this sort of shit...

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And another day goes by without any response.  I have a very small window of 10 days to get the RMA processed and the item returned before they will no longer accept it.  This is insane.  I decided to forward the same email with an appendum to the original, indicating the time that has passed without response, as well as links to their own official "rules".  I've also sent it to the 3 addresses I know about: info@ipcdirect.net , service@norcotek.com , sales@norcotek.com.  With any luck they'll promptly respond.  If not, I'll investigate their company's hierarchy and attempt to locate more emails to send additional forwards too.  Here's the latest:

 

------------------------

 

As of right now, 22 hours have passed with no response to this inquiry.  This is my 2nd attempt to get this resolved, included is my original complaint which has images showing proof of my issues.  I am trying to adhere strictly to your RMA guidelines, section 3 subsection II:
 

"Missing Parts / DOA (Dead on Arrival)

Claims for incomplete or missing accessories, or damages must be made within 10 days from receipt of the good(s). DOA units must be reported to NORCO within 30 calendar days upon receipt or the product will be considered accepted with no dispute. All returns being identified as modified by customer entitles no credit or refund."
 
I'm also adhering to your "Return Policy", 1st condition:
 
"All returns must be accompanied by a RMA number.You may request an RMA by email to info@iPCDIRECT.net"
 
If no attempt by your company is made to rectify this matter within the allowed time, further action will be taken.  I'm not one to make threats, but your company's history with a lot of online users suggests it is the only way to get things done.  I do not want to take legal action, but if you falsely advertise these things, I'm well within my rights.  Please escalate this matter to whomever is chiefly responsible for resolving these matters.  Thank you!
 
-Aaron
 

----- Forwarded Message -----

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I wish you the best of luck. I've sent nasty grams to all three addresses in the past and they are ignored. I was never able to escalate it any further than that as they also wouldn't respond to voice mails.

 

I wish we could force them to buy their junk product back at the purchase price.

 

I'm half tempted to buy more new ones, take out the good backplanes, if I get any good ones, and return it to the vendor. Atleast I'd be able to salvage something out of them and then the vendor could RMA it back to Norco.

 

They are just complete garbage any way you slice it.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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I wish I could afford a better case and just replace the whole thing. I have a crappy grocery store job that pays their employees pitifully while their CEO sits making $300k plus a year on salary and really only works 2 days a month. Anyway, I'll see where this goes. It was pretty interesting that it only took them an hour to send me an email asking for photos when I clicked the ORDER button on their website, but then they never replied back when I asked for further details prior to ordering.

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Hi did you pay with a credit card if so you will be covered under section 75 I think it is which means ring the card company tell them the problem then they will contact norco direct and believe me when a company is threatened with losing its ability to accept payments they tend to sort things out and credit card companies

Don't mess around I did it once took the company 6 months before visa would allow them any transactions again power to the people

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Another day, no reply.

 

@lee1878 - Would this work if it's a Mastercard, but also a checking debit card from your bank? That's all I have. I couldn't get "credit" if my life depended on it. I can't even get overdraft protection from my own bank that I've had an account with over 20 years.

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Latest (the forwarded message is included, I'm just not including it here in this forum):

 

------------------------------------------

Sent to sales@norcotekcom, service@norcotek.com, info@ipcdirect.net, judyzhou@norcotek.com (the person who wanted pictures of my old backplane), and wells@norcotek.com (the person who wanted to know what drive screws I needed)......

------------------------------------------

 

It has now been 50 hours (2 days and 2 hours) since my initial request was made to RMA a DOA replacement backplane.  You continue to ignore my emails.  So I have now added 2 more additional addresses to my ever growing list of contacts to send this request to.  Please do not ignore!  If you could even just reply to say "we'll look into it" or something, I'd be happier knowing it's at least being looked at.  From my point of view, you are ignoring this, hoping it will go away.  I am not about to let that happen.  Please fix this ASAP.

 

-Aaron

----- Forwarded Message -----

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Here's an interesting bit of (non-Norco-related) development...  I decided to forego using a backplane for the time being while Norco continues to BS around.  I still have my original iStar drive cages from my old case.  One converts 3x5.25 bays into 5x3.5, and the other converts 2x5.25 into 3x3.5.  So I thought, why not use my reverse breakout cable and hooked these drives up through that temporarily.  In doing so, I remembered why I hated this setup lol.  The middle slot on my 5-bay cage doesn't work, but that's ok because a reverse cable only has 4 connectors.  I connected the cables, remounted the drives onto it's new cage cradles, and booted it up.  DING!  Instant recognization of 3 of the drives.  The 4th one never came up.  So I hooked it into my regular computer, and wouldn't you know.... it never spins up.  The computer recognizes a drive is connected though, but is unable to read any information from the drive.  So that one's dead (though I suspect it may be in one of those "standby" modes).  I then tried another drive that I had stored in one of the bays on row #6.  It too was unrecognized in the server.  When I connected IT to my computer, it spins up, detects the available capacity, but is unable to read anything from the drive.  "Disk Management" shows it is uninitialized.  I tried to initialize it as either "MBR" or "GPT", but both come up with a "Data error (cyclic redundancy check)".  So I'm guessing it's dead now too.  I tried google for various solutions to either re-initialize a drive when I get that error, or even just "waking up" the drive that is detected but doesn't spin up.  I suspect that drive is just asleep, but I can't figure out how to force it awake.

 

Anyway, checked warranty status on those 2 drives, both are out of warranty.  Combined (500gb and 1.5tb) I'm out 2tb now.  Plus a backplane.  Not to mention the already hosed expander.  This thing is just beating the heck out of me!  :(

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That's the life of a computer user when it goes wrong it really goes wrong nothing is ever simple. I just upgraded my entire server rack and I have a long list of missing parts ready for the phone call to my supplier in the morning one of which is a faulty 24 bay expander backplane which half the led's dont work which will need replacing it's a shame you don't live closer I have an ever growing list of spare stuff to sell at some point

 

1 x 24bay array

1 x 1500 apc ups new version

1 x 2200 apc ups old version

1 x 48 port netgear switch

2 x 4u server cases

1 x 36 port raid/hba

1 x 36 port sas expander

8 x 4 bay drive caddys

2 x 8 port hba's

2 x 3 bay drive caddys

2 x and fx 8150 black

2 x asus crosshair v motherboards

 

That's just off the top my head I'll post my new setup once it's complete hopefully over the few weeks

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