New windows 7 server hardware advice

[unknownclient]

Greetings!

 

I have been using both of you products on a WHS 2011 for awhile and would like to build a new server. I would like the server to perform the following duties.

OS: Windows 7 64bit

FTP Server

Plex Server

Media Center DVR using Silicon Dust HD Home Run Prime

Minecraft Server

Cubeworld Server

1 256GB OS Drive Samsung 840 Pro (Purchased)

15 3TB Storage Pool (Purchased)

 

Hardware Chosen so far, or re-purposed for new Server.

Super Micro MBD-X10SAT-O

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813182830R

Intel Xeon E3-1230V3 3.3Ghz 8MB L3 Cach LGA 1150

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116906

Rosewill RSV-L4500 Case (Purchased)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811147164

ECC Memory not chosen 

Seasonic X-model SS-1250XMA (Purchased)

http://www.upgrademicro.com/Components/Power-Supply/Desktop_/Seasonic-X-1250-1250W-80Plus-Gold-EPS12V-ATX12V-Power-Supply

 

 

So here is where I would like some feed back. The motherboard has a Intel C226 Express PCH chipset. How is Stablebit's compatibility with this chipset? Will Stablebit scanner be able to read all the S.M.A.R.T data from it?

 

My second question is since the case I have chosen/re-purposed can accommodate 15 3.5 drives I will need a JBOD SAS card. I would also like this card to be able to read the S.M.A.R.T data. I am not interested in flashing any cards. I just want the most compatible SAS card with the ability to control at least 8 SATA drives. I plan on upgrading the case to a Norco RPC-4224 with 24 SATA/SAS drives, or something similar as I add drives to this server.

 

 

I hope that this community can give me some advice as how to proceed. Looking forward to your suggestions.

[otispresley]

Here are the search results on Newegg for all mini-SAS cards with 4 ports, which means that you can do 16 drives with the breakout cables.  

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007607%20600112098&IsNodeId=1&bop=And&Order=PRICE&PageSize=20

 

I have the cheapest one in the list (LSI 9201-16i), which has worked great for me.  It has no RAID and just connects drives.  DrivePool and Scanner work well with it, and I get S.M.A.R.T. data in Scanner.

 

If you want to go with a card that only supports 8 drives, there are plenty of options.  I would just advise going with a well-known brand, such as HighPoint or LSI.  You can also search the forums where similar questions have been answered before to determine some more specific options.

[Christopher (Drashna)]

That... build looks suspiciously familiar. Like almost exactly what I'm going to be upgrading to soon ....

 

As for compatibility with StableBit Scanner and SMART... the onboard chipsets usually aren't an issue, but I'm not sure.  Only one way to be certain.

Worst case, you man need to enable "UnsafeDirectIo" to get SMART data (which you most likely will need to do for the SAS card anyways).

 

As for the Norco... I have a RCP 4220 (the 20 bay version of what you're talking about). If the SAS card you have uses mini-SFF 8087 connectors, then you need to get a couple of cables and connect it directly to the drive "rails". Simple, and no need for cable management. Each one supports four lanes (aka drives).

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816116093

 

Also, you may want to get a couple of reverse breakout cables (4 SATA to a mini-SFF 8087) to plug the onboard into said "rails" as well (is what I do).

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816133033

 

 

And yeah the LSI cards are very very good buys. That, or get a HighPoint Rocket 2720SGL card or two (ROCKET, not ROCKETRAID)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816115111

 

 

Additionally, you don't absolutely need to get ECC RAM. if you have spare "desktop" sticks, you can use that. However, ECC  has built in "Error Checking and Correction" built into it. So it would make the system more stable.

[unknownclient]

Here are the search results on Newegg for all mini-SAS cards with 4 ports, which means that you can do 16 drives with the breakout cables.  

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007607%20600112098&IsNodeId=1&bop=And&Order=PRICE&PageSize=20

 

I have the cheapest one in the list (LSI 9201-16i), which has worked great for me.  It has no RAID and just connects drives.  DrivePool and Scanner work well with it, and I get S.M.A.R.T. data in Scanner.

 

If you want to go with a card that only supports 8 drives, there are plenty of options.  I would just advise going with a well-known brand, such as HighPoint or LSI.  You can also search the forums where similar questions have been answered before to determine some more specific options.

Thank you for the advice and search results. Did you have to enable the "UnsafeDirectIO" to get the card to pass smart data to Stablebit Scanner? Or did it just work out of the box?

 

That... build looks suspiciously familiar. Like almost exactly what I'm going to be upgrading to soon ....

 

As for compatibility with StableBit Scanner and SMART... the onboard chipsets usually aren't an issue, but I'm not sure.  Only one way to be certain.

Worst case, you man need to enable "UnsafeDirectIo" to get SMART data (which you most likely will need to do for the SAS card anyways).

 

As for the Norco... I have a RCP 4220 (the 20 bay version of what you're talking about). If the SAS card you have uses mini-SFF 8087 connectors, then you need to get a couple of cables and connect it directly to the drive "rails". Simple, and no need for cable management. Each one supports four lanes (aka drives).

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816116093

 

Also, you may want to get a couple of reverse breakout cables (4 SATA to a mini-SFF 8087) to plug the onboard into said "rails" as well (is what I do).

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816133033

 

 

And yeah the LSI cards are very very good buys. That, or get a HighPoint Rocket 2720SGL card or two (ROCKET, not ROCKETRAID)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816115111

 

 

Additionally, you don't absolutely need to get ECC RAM. if you have spare "desktop" sticks, you can use that. However, ECC  has built in "Error Checking and Correction" built into it. So it would make the system more stable.

Glad to see we are on the same page for hardware. Thank you for your recommended hardware links. Since this server will be supporting multiple roles at the same time I want it to be as stable as possible, hence the ECC ram. I will search the forums regarding the "UnsafeDirectIO" setting to review the pros or cons of enabling this feature.

[Christopher (Drashna)]

For the LSI card, yes most likely.

I got a IBM ServRAID m1115 (one that you need to flash), when it was operating in RAID mode, I had to enable UnsafeDirectIo. Once I flashed it to IT mode (HBA mode basically) with NO management firmware, I didn't need to. So, I'm not 100% sure there.

But the HighPoint card? Yes, you will.

 

As for the link on how to enable this option:

http://wiki.covecube.com/StableBit_Scanner_Advanced_Settings

As for the Pros and Cons:

The "UnsafeDirectIo" option tells Scanner to use command methods that are in our "unsafe" list. This means that these command can cause issues. It can cause the system to become unstable, the controller card to reboot drives (offline -> online), crash the controller, or even cause BSODs.

We maintain the list, because stability is the #1 most important thing to us. Period. End of story. If this means that we don't always display SMART data unless you turn on a setting, well, we feel that's more important.

Not to take a pot shot at another product, but I've actually seen a few people have issues caused by HD Sentinel because it was using one of these methods that we've marked unsafe.

 

That said, most higher end RAID cards (HighPoint, 3ware, LSI, Dell PERC, etc) tend to require the unsafe methods, but don't seem to suffer any ill affects. I've used a HighPoint (lower end of the higher end cards)  RocketRAID 2720SGL for more than a year. I've never experienced issues with it

(well, one, but I don't count it because it was.... a tcpip.sys BSOD caused by the web management app for the HighPoint card, because of a drive that was catastrophically failing, and causing all sorts of issues, even crashed by USB enclosure)

 

 

 

 

And yeah, I run a bunch of roles and services on my server, as well as share it with friends and family, so stability is important too. And I'm tired of stability issues (ASRock 990FX Extreme3, AMD CPU... only because it was cheap from a friend).

And yes, ECC would be worth it if stability is important.

However, I have two "8i" cards, so I only need 5 ports on the board (system and one "rail"). 10 is too many for me.. .but better too many than not enough. 

 

And you are very welcome for the links. Though make sure you get REVERSE breakout cables to convert the SATA ports on the motherboard to a SAS port. it's not reversible. It is one way or the other. So it's important to get the right ones.

[Christopher (Drashna)]

Also, that case that you have (the Rosewell 4U), you'd want to get normal breakout cables:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816116099

[p3x-749]

However, ECC  has built in "Error Checking and Correction" built into it. So it would make the system more stable.

 

IMHO this is not a matter of stability but that of data intregrity.

There is a risk that a bit in RAM can "just flip"...when this bit is part of a data-set that is currently written to disks, your data (the file) will get written with that bit not in original state, which can render the file useless.

ECC memory can correct single bit errors and detect double bit erros in your RAM.

For single bit error, your data will stay intact, for a double error, at least you'll get a warning/error-log and take action.

With non-ECC RAM this error will go without notice and at some point in time later, you'll discover that the file is corrupt..

[otispresley]

Thank you for the advice and search results. Did you have to enable the "UnsafeDirectIO" to get the card to pass smart data to Stablebit Scanner? Or did it just work out of the box?

 

Yes, I did have to enable "UnsafeDirectIO" in Scanner, but I am also running it as a VM in ESXi with all the disks passed through.

[Christopher (Drashna)]

Also, looking closely at the CPU... I'd recommend a Xeon E3 12x5 v3 CPU instead. The reason being, that these ones have onboard (on chip?) graphics. The board you linked doesn't have IPMI, so you'd need some way to hook up a monitor ... or do it 100% blind. Either way, it would make things easier.

 

Such as the 1225: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116910

Or the 1245: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116909 (Amazon has it in stock .... and cheaper than the 1225)

 

But this is definitely your choice.

 

 

IMHO this is not a matter of stability but that of data intregrity.

There is a risk that a bit in RAM can "just flip"...when this bit is part of a data-set that is currently written to disks, your data (the file) will get written with that bit not in original state, which can render the file useless.

ECC memory can correct single bit errors and detect double bit errors in your RAM.

For single bit error, your data will stay intact, for a double error, at least you'll get a warning/error-log and take action.

With non-ECC RAM this error will go without notice and at some point in time later, you'll discover that the file is corrupt..

I count data integrity as part of stability, sorry. 

And either way, I think it's worth spending the money on it (and I'm a cheapskate)

[unknownclient]

wow this is great! Thanks for all the options and responses everyone. I will do some research and reading on all your opinions and suggestions. Thank you so much for your help.

[Christopher (Drashna)]

You are very welcome. I can't comment for the others, but I enjoy sharing my experiences and knowledge with others.

 

 

Oh, and it looks like the Intel Xeon E3-1245v3 is probably the best CPU to purchase. It's a bit cheaper and faster than the 1225, and runs at a lower max TDP than the 1225 or the 1275 (the next higher CPU, higher clock speed and higher price). So it's basically the best balance of everything. And sold out on newegg... probably for a good reason.

Newegg comparison: link

Amazon link for it (~$290, instead of the 1225's ~$315)

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00D697QGI/?tag=extension-kb-20

[Christopher (Drashna)]

Okay, just wanted to update you on this...

 

I purchased said Xeon CPU (the E3 1245v3) and the SuperMicro X10SAT board. Been running for a week.

Absolutely fabulous. I'm very happy with it, and it works very, very well. Like, literally half the power consumption compared to the AMD 8120 FX CPU I was using. (VA/wattage reported by UPS). 135VA used, vs 200-300VA fluctuating wildly.

 

The issue I have is that the driver page is absolutely horribly setup. the ISO download doesn't work. Even with a download manager. And you need to download everything from the generic "Windows" section first, and then go to your OS... unless you're using Server 2012 or R2. Then grab them from Windows 8 and Server 2008R2. .... 

 

Aside from that, the only other issue is that it doesn't support IPMI, and intel vPro isn't as good. Works well, but requires $100 for RealVNC's Viewer Plus to be able to mount ISO's over the network.

 

 

But both StableBit DrivePool and StableBit Scanner work fabulously with the onboard chipset. At least the Intel one. I'm not using the ASMedia ports (the two last ones, 7 and 8).

And that is without any config file in use.